I thought it would be fun to put some lists up of things that we as the council believe about the world and characters that are not proved in the manga or that we all use in fandom that don't actually exist. Is there a subject you like to play that has no real basis in canon?
One of the ones I love to use is "The Council". I always believed there needed to be another governing body in Cephiro beside the pillar's absolute power. I feel most of--if not all--the members have inherited their seat, much like a house of lords? I do feel that the council is almost ceremonial until the destruction of the pillar system when they have to learn how to actually govern again. I see them as being hung up on the old practices and having a VERY difficult time accepting the changes that the dissolution of the pillar system means.
Which then follows into my second belief...
Partially because I love it as a plot device, but I feel that the laws about not being able to fall in love, etc that hold the pillar a prisoner of her own heart are also an umbrella that covers all the close members of the pillar's inner circle. Because the majority of those members are no longer in their original position, they are now out of the reach of that law, save Clef, who is still very much the master mage/supreme yil. Because of the inflexability of the council it takes some time to lift this regulation that is still there.
Though the full reasons behind the restriction are still left to the imagination. Perhaps a romance could endanger the world of Cephiro because it could upset some bond the master mage has? Any number of things.
What do you believe?
I have a similar Council headcanon, though I always called it the Pillar's Court. I like the idea of its name being changed post-Emeraude, though, and the Council is perfect. *steals*
One that's always been with me is the whole "Prince" Ferio thing. People seem to debate on this point (or, well, used to), but there's no monarchy in Cephiro. Is the royal title for the Pillar just that, a title? And by extension, the Pillar's siblings are thrust into positions of responsibility. I wonder if the parents would be, as well. (I happen to believe Emeraude and Ferio's parents are deceased because there's no other reason why they wouldn't at least be mentioned!)
Ferio didn't seem to want anything to do with that in the manga; I don't know if it's ever said why he was roaming around like a bard in MKR1. I personally think he just couldn't stand his sister being so untouchable. Those closest to the Pillar understood it was a prison and I think he just hated the idea and wanted to distance himself from it. And obviously came back after Emeraude was gone and the Court/Council was trying to get their shit together while the country collapsed. There were probably repercussions -- shirking one's official duties is always a no-no -- but I think he probably got off easy because everyone was trying to keep Cephiro from self-destructing at the time.
Post-MKR2, he has duties. Probably a lot of appearance sort of things, keeping morale up, whatnot. He's good at it too, being a charming sort of fellow. The people love the whole Prince/Knight romance so Fuu does some appearances with him*. He's a figure that gives the people hope which keeps Cephiro stable. He's on the Council and is usually part of Big Discussions About Political Things. He probably has other duties too, but what they are depend on the scenario I'm writing, yknow? He's not thrilled with it, but he loves his country and wants to honor Emeraude so he does his duties with a smile (well, he whines that Clef makes him work too much, but the citizens don't know that!).
*The Knights have a lot of public relations duties, too. Keeping the citizens hopeful and happy is key to Cephiro's stability now.
oh spirits I SHOULD NOT BE POSTING HERE be warned: rambling about fic!structures in this post. >.< I manage to avoid it for about a paragraph and a half! Apparently this is how my brain wanted to wind down from work and up to writing I AM VERY VERY SORRY
I have...... uh, fanon for Weight of Water (Protecting You Et Al Verse) (which has grown in the writing, as tends to happen!) and then headcanon that I believe in for all my dealings with Rayearth, and sometimes I get the two muddled, but!
I believe that Ferio's title is honorific. It carries no real power, no real 'duties' as such - I think he was called up as a figurehead for Rayearth2 because a) a bunch of the most important figures pre-fall probably died fighting Zagato before the Knights ever got there and b) as Emeraude's sibling who is Still Alive he's a symbol of the old order Not Giving Up - he's a calming measure. This is based on two things: a) the titles for ranks (apart from the Pillar, who is 'the Pillar of Cephiro' or 'Emeraude-hime'/'Princess Emeraude' - I can't remember her being called 'the Princess of Cephiro' by a Cephiran, though I think Aska does it? THINGS I NEED TO CHECK FOR MY TITLES ESSAY XD) are non-Japanese words - the three exceptions are Zagato being addressed as 'Zagato-sama/Lord Zagato' AFTER he has tossed aside his role as Soru (a title which Clef never gets, and Lantis never gets) and which is mainly Alcione-only: I take this as being a title respecting his personal power, the control of Cephiro he has usurped, and is therefore not a usual part of Cephiran heirachy; the next is Emeraude, whose is addressed as hime in respectful terms but it's a form of address in respect of the power she has as Pillar, not her actual title. Then there's Ferio - whose title as 'Prince' is derived from Emeraude's, and is (imo) the same kind of respectful-but-rather-meaningless title; any power he has comes from a personal relationship with the pillar, not from his own rank. Even if it does mean something, it HAS to be terminated as power-holding on the ascension of the NEW Pillar because otherwise you'd have two families competing for power - which never goes well!
So I think they USE him as a figurehead, and that's why he spends his time not doing anything important leadership-wise that we see - and why, at the end of the manga, it's Clef as Guru who's sat there talking with the other lands, and Ferio's free to goof off and be cute at Fuu! (Not that I think he wouldn't anyway, I just think SOMEONE would make a comment. Probably Fuu. XD)
In the absence of the Pillar he probably could have gathered a powerbase (frightened people are easily lead) and challenged Clef, and (in the absence of a Soru) Clef's the only figure with codified rank left that we know of apart from Presea and LaFarga, both of whom act subordinate to him. (plus, there's that image in which Clef's the flying head with Presea below him and Ferio at the bottom which CLAMP say they drew with Clef at the top because he's highest in rank - I decided they MEANT that Ferio's lower in rank than Presea as Faru even when he's Prince, because I have to justify my fanon somewhere, right?)
TLDR: Ferio's rank = a way of distracting people from the UTTER LACK of power structure left after the fall~
......In 'council' headcanon, aaaand this is one of the reasons I have to edit the beginning of PY a little, I go back and forth. Because if Cephiro's based on the feudalism of (northern) europe, Emeraude's rank means nothing without a legitimising group to give consent to it - BUT the fact that she CONTROLS THE WHOLE OF THE LAND means she pretty much has the power to, you know, wipe out any opposition before it begins!
And if it's based on that ultimate-monarchy model which doesn't work in real life without magic (which with the god-king/queen and religious elements of the role of 'Pillar' who 'Prays' for the world all being made literal, there definitely ARE) then... there is no need for a council, for counsellors. The world belongs to the Pillar. (Given that there is no compassion or sanity check in the challenge to become Pillar that we know of - and if there were why would everyone be so worried about invading forces becoming Pillar? - I am fascinated and terrified by the idea of a despot becoming Pillar. FASCINATED. I mean - as much as anything else, that's why Emeraude had to die: she might have chosen to destory a world without Zagato... or she might have chosen to punish it. OOH LOOK THAT'S HEADCANON TOOOOOO)
Which means that the switch from one-person-power to all-people-power is, uh, a fairly literal monarchy/democracy (totallitarian/socialist?) flip which is fun to poke themantically. XD
But I do think there would have been an advisory body, to inform the Pillar what was happening all over the land - small things, things which never quite make it to people's prayers, things which the Pillar might overlook with a whole land to nurture: and this, I tend to think, was the role of the Priesthood.
Hence Zagato being so very very important: he was there to support her prayers because he was there to advise her on what she should be praying for!
BEYOND THAT I have headcanon for PY/WWverse which says there actually IS a Council, because that verse takes Cephiro as the northern-european-feudal-model-developed-to-extremes and so has the same base: the ruler rules by consent, and takes advice from those about them who control various aspects/areas of the land and can grant consent to them. But in Cephiro, where rank seems largely to depend on ability - back to those Cephiran titles again XD and the whole ideology that 'the strength of the heart becomes power' kinda weakens if it's 'the strength of the heart - and your bloodlines - become power' ??? (which is not to say it wouldn't happen because in this world it always does. >.< but! Magic making it literal! Better chance of avoiding corruption and nepotism?) AND SO the heart of THIS council of mine is the heads of the various - well, I've called them Guilds, in deference to the historical basis and the RPG terminology. XD Mages, Priests, Smiths, Guards - basically, anyone who has a title as 'master of' gets a seat. And then, to make it representative, there are the representatives of the various people - and below them come the officials from each area, the local head of the Guard and the Priests.
Also I've stuck in a Judiciary as the third main power (Mages-Judges-Priests) to form a balancing trinity because that looks more stable and I really don't think you can have humans without having some form of dispute-settlement system encoded. SO. XD;;; figuratively that turns into the Priests providing spiritual/mental guidance, the Judiciary providing physical guidance, and the mages providing guidance on the mental-becoming-physical. (which is why I decided Clef was the one with the closest bond to Cephiro left. Also why there needed to be two others of equalish power to balance him out, and so that he and one other would be able to balance the third out.)
(..........the former head judge would be, in this headcanon, one of the people who first stood up to Zagato and died for it; Clef would have needed to support them to take down Zagato, Zagato would have needed their support to take down Clef, TRINITY. Supporting the Pillar and the people! Governing the interactions between the people and Cephiro/the Pillar!)
............POSSIBLY it's SLIGHTLY VISIBLE that I was getting really into my course on the evolution of the nobility and gentry of europe when I was developing this! JUST POSSIBLY. XD
UH ANYWAY I can mix and match my terminology - I like 'council' for the codified group of people offering counsel because they're counselors? XD (in contrast to the 'Parliament' for Autozam because their role is to discuss, decide, and legislate - they have a stronger role and talking out the decisions which will be put into practise is the heart of it, there's no one to negotiate with after they've made their decision~) But the people about Emeraude - PHYSICALLY about her - I would term her court, and the two are overlapping, fluid groups of interest and influence. Lantis/LaFarga would hold more power in the Court than the Council, because being in control of the physical space about the Pillar they can control who belongs to/can access that court - which means they could also make it hard for Counsellors to access the Council - but the Council's meeting is not dependant on Emeraude's prescence in the same way as the Court; they can send messengers! Write letters! What they've debated and agreed on has importance even without her being there because they are holding individual rank! And in that context Lantis and LaFarga would have a lower rank. It's why the Guard have to be trustworthy above all else - and that would lead to a huge reaction to Lantis betraying Cephiro by abandoning his post and buggering off to flirt with the eventual-enemy~
(Hence why LaFarga is still the head of the Guard after Lantis's return and the end of Rayearth 2, in my head, and that is a thing which I believe in utterly~)
(I DON'T WANT TO KNOW HOW MANY WORDS THIS IS hello and welcome to MY BRAIN whoopssssss)
Since I killed this thread by flailing words all over it last time let's kill it with only a few this time (especially as I gave in and posted the fic which is basically THIS):
CLEF IS A SUB.
Thank you.
(no, seriously, it makes TOO MUCH SENSE that he needs somewhere he DOESN'T have to be in control and - yeah)
(...............uh, younger members of the forum, do not google this, I mean Clef is a submissive (or has submissive tendancies) when in bed with someone. Or not in bed. XD) (Because he's so... oriented towards other people's happiness and it carries over? And sometimes someone should make him pay attention to his own happiness?) (Happiness is an euphemism~)
(..........Spirits, this is my entire reason for shipping Clef/Umi isn't it........)
ANYONE WANT TO SPEAK UP ABOUT ANYONE ELSE? *intent on not being the only person in the gutter*
Quote from: Down on November 23, 2012, 08:06:52 PM
Since I killed this thread by flailing words all over it last time let's kill it with only a few this time (especially as I gave in and posted the fic which is basically THIS):
CLEF IS A SUB.
Thank you.
(no, seriously, it makes TOO MUCH SENSE that he needs somewhere he DOESN'T have to be in control and - yeah)
(...............uh, younger members of the forum, do not google this, I mean Clef is a submissive (or has submissive tendancies) when in bed with someone. Or not in bed. XD) (Because he's so... oriented towards other people's happiness and it carries over? And sometimes someone should make him pay attention to his own happiness?) (Happiness is an euphemism~)
(..........Spirits, this is my entire reason for shipping Clef/Umi isn't it........)
ANYONE WANT TO SPEAK UP ABOUT ANYONE ELSE? *intent on not being the only person in the gutter*
THIS!!! ^
ALL OF IT!!! Because REASONS!!
I totally ship Umi/Clef because she needs someone who won't let her push them around when it counts.
Quote from: Milieva on November 23, 2012, 11:05:31 PM
I totally ship Umi/Clef because she needs someone who won't let her push them around when it counts.
YES. And he needs someone who WILL push him, too, and basically MUTUAL STANDING UP TO EACH OTHER?
ALSO HEADCANON: apparently I have a belief that open relationships and poly ones are far more usual on Cephiro than they are on Earth! Not just accepted easier, but less unexpected?
This I should blame on Lantis/Eagle/Hikaru, but actually it's Clef who thumped me with it tonight.
AGES: I am of the firm belief that Umi is the youngest of the three. In my personal head canon the story starts somewhere in March or April, right around the beginning or end of the school year. Ages being right, I'd say the end. This means that Umi would have only JUST turned 14. The other girls would have been that age for a while, and Hikaru would be the oldest.
(This also means that Umi might actually get to finish school in DD, OMG!)
Eh, in my own head canon, Cephiro is a constitutional monarchy and is a principality at that (hence why Ferio is Prince and not King (because I also believe his parents have died)). My fanon goes that the first born becomes Pillar (some how, being Pillar runs in the Royal family (do not ask me how)), but of course, the Pillar can not have children so it is the second born that assumes the crown and then has to have at least two kids of their own.
It all went to pot in series two, because Emeraude had died but obviously Ferio had no children, so in this case, the position of Pillar has to go to someone from outside the Royal family, cue plot of series two, etc.
It would seem most of you consider the role of Prince a decorative one, but I want a Royal family, dammit :P
And, there is also a Council, who are a partially elected government of sorts, but most are aging men who have inherited their positions. I imagine that after the abolishment of the Pillar system, the whole Cephiran landscape and climate has changed, it's no longer the land of Eternal Spring, they have seasons now. And it's the council who have to deal with this and the implications of this.
In my fanon, the position of Guru is very loosely like that of the Pope, in which there are a small selection of candidates for the job and is chosen by the council. You don't have to be the very best mage in the land, but rather a really good mage who would be best for the job (hence why there are candidates and doesn't automatically go to the best mage in the land).
Um, it's a bit half baked, I guess.
I agree on the principality notion to an extent. In my fic canon there is a monarchy, but it and the council had always been a separate from the pillar until it came to Emeraude, and that just threw everything into chaos, that is still being restored after Rayearth 2.
I do like the Guru as pope thing. It flows with what I think. He was chosen for his position, but can also be removed from the position if necessary.
It's so interesting to read all this... I haven't delved deep like you guys on Cephiro's system, but here are some ideas I have (again, they're all manga based!):
I mostly assume Cephiro's system is built on a form of meritocracy based of strength of heart/will. So people would have to constantly prove themselves to achieve and even keep some positions (RPG, yes?).
So it'd be very malleable and based on teaching/apprenticeships. Like, Clef as the Master Mage would train students who already achieved/have huge potential to achieve a certain level of magic/abilities/etc. He would be sort of the final boss/mentor to the students who seek further education/training (and maybe a position of power according to their capacity). This is why Clef was the one assigned to guide the Magic Knights; they're supposed to have the legendary power awaiting awakening and proof.
This is why I never saw Cephiro thrown into chaos after Hikaru dissolved the Pillar system. I don't believe they could predict exactly who the next Pillar would be, or even when. I'd suppose a Pillar would last a REALLY long time, enough to cover generations, especially since I don't remember even Clef knowing much about the details on the choosing of a new Pillar (but then, I need to reread the manga). (on another note, I have no theory whatsoever about how the Pillars changed without the "aid" of the Magic Knights, do they just quit? turn into flower petals? do they ever guide a potential future pillar?)
People who held the most power on Cephiro would find it a natural process to be replaced by their disciples or people who've proven themselves worthy of the position. Of course that doesn't mean they would be happy about it, most would make things difficult for others and create lots of obstacles. But those obstacles don't necessarily need to be RPG-ish quests, they could also involve political moves and strategy and whatever seems fit. So it'd be a mix of power of will, proving oneself and also having an indication.
Uh... that's it... Not nearly as thought out as you guys', but I though it out be nice to write about it and I really need to procrastinate right now.
This is my take on the Pillar system -- there is a institution that trains young mages/soldiers (anyone with a strong will) to prepare them for positions at the Cephiro Court. Everyone aspires to be the Pillar because of the prestige it brings and because no one really knows the sacrifices that must be made until they are the final few candidates. Those final candidates who aren't chosen as Pillar tend to acquire other high positions like master mage or high priest. It's my belief that those who run the institution (some kind of High Council of old geezers or what not) are painfully aware of what happens every time a Pillar needs to be replaced (it's not the first time Magic Knights were summoned from another land) so they are always training/looking for Pillar candidates. The problem that we encounter in season 2 (no Pillar) is because the transition from the prior Pillar to Emeraude took place in such a short period of time (Emeraude was only seated for a few years) a new batch of potential Pillars couldn't be found.
^ I really, really, really couldn't get around Cephiro not having a Pillar replacement system in season 2 so I kind of headcannoned all this crap hahaha.
I don't think I ever thought too deeply on the royal family though. From what we see in the anime/manga it does seem like a decorative position...maybe whoever is Pillar at that time is the royal family? I don't know! I'll definitely think of something for this because I think one of things that makes Rayearth so interesting is the varied and different world/background CLAMP made for its characters.
I LOVE HEADCANONSSSSSSSSSSSS I shall try not to kill the thread again though. XD
I believe that the Pillar System has been in place for a long time. All the talk about legends, people knowing part but not all of the tale, Lantis wanting to end the 'cycle', and the 'truth' of the system being unknown by the majority of the people - even the way the Cephiran's can't see how to change the system, because they have grown up with it engrained into them. All of that points, to me, to this being a well established system. One which people are so used to that they can't see beyond it. This is STRONG in me because for me it's one of the main themes I see in Rayearth - the outside influence can sometimes see clearer, how to balance that with the knowledge of the insider for change where needed in the right direction without losing your identity~
BUT ANYWAY I believe it has been there for a LONG TIME, certainly a good handful of generations. I believe there have been other magic knights. And that quite possibly there is no way for the Pillar to pass on without them - that some of the ones who have been called have been called not because the Pillar has fallen in love, but because they have gone on too long, and they need to pass on. That some have been called not because the Pillar has fallen in love with someone else, but because they have fallen out of love with Cephiro, or just that their wish has slowly changed over the years as THEY have changed with the duties, and maybe some burn out. And every time the Knights need to be called, because the Knights are from outside the system - no one from Cephiro can kill the Pillar, because the Pillar IS Cephiro, and CONTROLS Cephiro. So they cannot kill themselves directly, the land would die with them, and no one from within Cephiro can kill their creator because - well, they would be killing the land, in their mind/heart, which might well damage Cephiro too much for a new Pillar to be found before the disintergration is irreversible? So the knights are an essential part of this process, as they come from outside and are not under the influence of the Pillar, not within that power and belief structure?
And I think - I think Clef may have been Guru since about halfway through the reign of the previous pillar, but that the Soru and the head of the Guard were the two who were meant to be close to the Pillar and support them. I'm not sure he actually knew what happened during the fall - and that during the chaos, the old Soru and a lot of the old Guards were killed. Then his student, Emeraude, becomes the new Pillar, and because he (as less involved) survived through the chaos he is the one who helps chose the new Soru and Guard - and he has been the Guru for a while now, so they're his students too. But because Emeraude is his student, because Zagato and Lantis are, he is more involved with supporting her this time. And so... he sees what happens, and he begins to doubt, to question the basis of Cephiro.
I also think that Emeraude is Pillar for at least a few years, probably closer to a decade. So there's time for things to slowly develop between her and Zagato, and then time for Lantis to leave and wander the worlds, for Ferio to vanish into the forests? Basically TIME EVERYWHERE, ALL THE EPIC! XD
Quote from: dhiver on November 27, 2012, 03:37:44 AM
This is my take on the Pillar system -- there is a institution that trains young mages/soldiers (anyone with a strong will) to prepare them for positions at the Cephiro Court. Everyone aspires to be the Pillar because of the prestige it brings and because no one really knows the sacrifices that must be made until they are the final few candidates. Those final candidates who aren't chosen as Pillar tend to acquire other high positions like master mage or high priest. It's my belief that those who run the institution (some kind of High Council of old geezers or what not) are painfully aware of what happens every time a Pillar needs to be replaced (it's not the first time Magic Knights were summoned from another land) so they are always training/looking for Pillar candidates. The problem that we encounter in season 2 (no Pillar) is because the transition from the prior Pillar to Emeraude took place in such a short period of time (Emeraude was only seated for a few years) a new batch of potential Pillars couldn't be found.
^ I really, really, really couldn't get around Cephiro not having a Pillar replacement system in season 2 so I kind of headcannoned all this crap hahaha.
I LOOOOOOOVE THIS. Adopting headcanon now.
Also Clef's position being similar to the pope's. I always had that concept in my mind but never really made the literal connection. Yes yes this.
Quote from: suzanami on December 01, 2012, 02:46:25 AM
I LOOOOOOOVE THIS. Adopting headcanon now.
Also Clef's position being similar to the pope's. I always had that concept in my mind but never really made the literal connection. Yes yes this.
YAYAYAY :D A pre-knights Cephiro story has been bugging me for the longest time but I am probably the most undedicated, writer's-block-ridden-writer ever. EVER. But I'll get around to it eventually...or yunno if anyone else wants to do it *encourages*
I was just thinking how a lot of these are grand-scale headcanons, but I have itty-bitty ones, too.
Like: I've always thought that the Knights are surprised to learn that flowers and plants don't need watered. I mean, rain seems to be a sign of the country being unstable. So it probably doesn't normally rain in Cephiro. Which means plants must not need it to thrive. Hell, I'm half-surprised people need to eat with the way Will Is All is sometimes handled. (in canon and fanwork)
Birthdays aren't a huge thing in Cephiro. For one, you just have so many... And also the culture just isn't big on it. The Knights introduce the tradition a little bit to their friends. Ferio's birthday is in early summer.
My headcanon says that the timespan for MKR 1 is a good bit longer than it appears to be in the manga.
The timeline I've developed basically goes as follows:
Hikaru, Umi, and Fuu arrive in Cephiro and meet Clef in early-to-mid morning of the first day. They spend most of the day on the griffin and reach Presea's house in the mid-to-late afternoon. They leave Presea in the late afternoon and meet Ferio and fight the bird monster not too long after that. They spend that night in the Forest of Silence, several miles from Presea's house.
Alcyone's second attack happens around noon of their second day in Cephiro and their camp that night is a few miles short of Eterna. They find the Escudo and receive their new weapons in the morning of the third day, spend most of the day traveling to the Shrine of Water and revive Selece in the late afternoon. They spend the night in the shrine and leave for the Shrine of Wind the next morning.
They reach the Shrine of Wind and revive Windam around noon of the fourth day, then spend that night about halfway to the Shrine of Fire, near the tip of that really narrow peninsula jutting out from the left-hand land mass. They reach the Shrine of Fire and revive Rayearth in the early afternoon of the fifth day, then spend most of the afternoon flying and battle Zagato and Emeraude in the late afternoon.
So I was recently thinking about Emeraude and Zagato and Lantis and Ferio and ended up developing a somewhat detailed headcanon about their relationships and families and a bit of what they were like growing up and (in the case of the first three) learning magic. Some of it has actually been adopted from various things Down has posted, either in this thread or in Protecting You and some of her other works.
At the time Emeraude became the Pillar, she was 300, Zagato was 294, Lantis was 284, and Ferio was 8. Emeraude and Ferio's parents died in the chaos between the death of the previous Pillar and Emeraude's ascension to the post. Emeraude was only Pillar for ten years, so Ferio was 18 when she died.
Both Emeraude and Ferio's parents and Lantis and Zagato's parents were minor functionaries in the Pillar's Court, so all of them grew up in the Pillar's Palace.
Most mages either are granted magic once they are old enough to ask for it (they have to be at least fifteen before the request will be granted) or stumble into it as a means of surviving some sort of life-threatening danger, but Emeraude was one of those rare people who showed signs of being a strong mage at her birth and Clef gave her lessons in magic appropriate to her understanding from the time she could walk. Before she became Pillar, Clef had been slowly grooming her as his eventual successor.
Zagato received his magic from Clef when he was fifteen. Lantis, being only five, was denied the request for magic he had made at the same time and spent the next six years throwing himself into increasingly more dangerous situations in hopes of gaining magic that way until he finally succeeded after severely startling Zagato during a lesson in the offensive uses of lightning magic.
To this day, Clef is still uncertain as to whether Lantis gained magic entirely by instinctive survival in partially parrying the bolt Zagato accidentally cast at him or if his own desperate attempt to grant Lantis the magic he'd need to survive Zagato's startled blast succeeded. He remembers casting the spell to grant the magic, but does not remember feeling it take before Lantis was lying on the ground, twitching, in the center of a blackened circle
I apparently never actually POSTED my reply to this (such an organised person, I am!) ahahhahahahaaaaaaaaaaaa oops but
I really really like the idea behind Lantis's gaining magic. :) I'd love to read it! Either at the time or post-canon looking back on it~
I'll see what I can do about writing that, then, Down.
So I've been thinking about things and this is the headcanon I've reached on what the level of general public knowledge about the Magic Knights and the situation between Emeraude and Zagato was at various points in the MKR canon.
Before and during MKR 1
The Magic Knights: There's this old, old, old legend about Magic Knights that save Cephiro, but except for those in the Pillar's inner circle, no one believes it's anything more than a legend.
Emeraude and Zagato: Zagato kidnapped Emeraude to make a power grab.
Post-MKR 1 through the end of MKR 2
The Magic Knights: The legend of the Magic Knights is true; the Pillar summons them from another world when Cephiro is in a crisis. I see Cephiro as having a recorded history going back at least a dozen millennia and every one to two millennia, whatever it is that drives the Pillar to summon the Magic Knights (since he or she can't pass on without their aid) causes enough of a public crisis that public awareness of the legend being true spikes, only to fade over time until the next public crisis.
Emeraude and Zagato: Emeraude died by accident in the course of the Magic Knights' rescue attempt. Zagato kidnapped Emeraude because he had fallen in love with her and her ignorance (or maybe disregard) of his feelings was driving him mad. I can see Clef feeling a need to do something to at least partially redeem Zagato's image and the others in the know going along with it out of respect for his grief. He wouldn't, however, want the general public to know that Emeraude had summoned the Magic Knights to kill her because she had fallen in love with Zagato. Even when he talks about making sure the next Pillar candidate knows the full truth, he gives no indication that he thinks it should become public knowledge.
Post-MKR 2
The full truth of both the legend and Emeraude and Zagato's situation becomes public knowledge. Now that the Pillar system has been abolished, there's no reason to keep either a secret anymore and every reason to tell the truth so as to avoid having to keep track of who knows what.
I also wanted to explore how much the commoners know.
No one has ever gone into this so I am over the moon to see your post!
I like your head canon that Clef wouldn't want the public to know that Emeraude had summoned the Magic Knights to kill her because she had fallen in love with Zagato and he said Zagato kidnapped Emeraude because he went mad when Em would not return his feelings
Your head canon is really logical and it could be what happened.
More headcanon! It seems insomnia is a great headcanon generator.
1. Post MKR 2, Lantis doesn't want to resume his old position as Captain of the Palace Guard. (My headcanon says that after Hikaru abolished the Pillar system, the Pillar's Guard was renamed to 'the Palace Guard'.) He'd be perfectly happy to be Lafarga's second-in-command, maybe even to be a co-captain, but he does not want to be 100% in charge of the Palace Guard again.
2. When Hikaru starts having kids, Lantis gets called 'Papa' and Eagle gets called 'Dad'. I feel that 'Papa' is ever so slightly more familiar than 'Dad', so since I can't really see Eagle ever really, truly, 100% leaving Autozam and committing himself wholly to Cephiro, it makes sense for the kids to be somewhat more familiar with Lantis than with Eagle, since Eagle isn't present for a noticeable minority of the time. (I'm guessing it would usually total somewhere around three to four months out of every year, occasionally going as high as six months.)
3. All the kids of the pairings in the core group (Magic Knights, Cephirans, Caldina, Eagle) are so familiar with the people in the core group that they call everyone other than their parents 'Aunt' and 'Uncle'. Yes, even Clef. He finds it sort of odd at first, but ends up growing to like it. It starts with the Magic Knights' kids and spreads from them to the Calfarga and Cephiran kids. The H/L/E kids also call Geo and Zazu 'Uncle'.
4. During the period between Emeraude entering the water dungeon and summoning the Magic Knights, with the single exception of the trip to Presea's to drop off Mokona, Clef was pretty much hiding out in the Forest of Eleru to avoid having people importuning him to face Zagato. After the dust of the Legendary Battle settles, there are plenty of people who are (somewhat rightfully) royally pissed at him for doing so. When he gets confronted by any of these people, he generally counters with two arguments.
The first argument is that Zagato's desperation had made him even stronger than Clef and Clef wouldn't have been any more successful at defeating him than anyone before the Magic Knights was. If that isn't enough to mollify whoever is confronting him (the ones who aren't mollified generally ask how he could have been so certain of that without testing it), he will then go on to say that the day everything went to pieces, Emeraude had specifically charged him with aiding the Magic Knights if she was forced to summon them, so he absolutely could not take afford to take that chance, even if he wasn't entirely certain that Zagato had become stronger than him.
C&P-ing from the thread on the Mashin's terms for the Magic Knights:
I've recently come to the conclusion that the formal titles of the Magic Knights would be 'the Magic Knight of [Mashin]', somewhat less formally - but still likely to be used in a formal situation - they would be '[Mashin's] Knight', and informally, they would be 'the Magic Knight of [Element]' or 'the [Element] Knight'.
No, I'm not coming up with headcanon that fits with the stories I've already written, not at all.
Quote from: Somariel on April 25, 2014, 12:29:57 PM
So I've been thinking about things and this is the headcanon I've reached on what the level of general public knowledge about the Magic Knights and the situation between Emeraude and Zagato was at various points in the MKR canon.
SORRY this is a reply to a slightly old post but ahhHH I just wanted to say that your take on how much the population know about the legend of the Magic Knights and what happened with Emeraude is pretty close to mine!
I figure that there was a lot of confusion on the citizens' parts even after learning about the truth of what happened with Emeraude so there's an effort to present the Knights to the people, because the Council/whoever is concerned about the Knights being demonized (because even if you explain things to people, they still come to their own conclusions), and the girls are so damn charming that in getting to
know them to some degree instead of just
hearing of them, most citizens actually come to admire the girls for the sacrifices they made for this Other World.
...aaaand I might also be spewing my own fic all over the topic, too XD
I'm kind of scared to publish it eventually because so many people are set in so many of their own headcanons about the series that everyone will be like "NO THATS WRONG it would be this way instead" even though it cannot be wrong it's filling in the blanks but aahh other peoples' are better informed than minebut yes, I think Clef was of course resigned to another Pillar and telling that Pillar about Emeraude's situation, but if the citizens knew, it'd be chaos. thank goodness for Hikaru making that not an issue, because Clef is so glad to just make that whole situation public knowledge.
Quote from: suzanami on July 24, 2014, 10:47:55 PM
Quote from: Somariel on April 25, 2014, 12:29:57 PM
So I've been thinking about things and this is the headcanon I've reached on what the level of general public knowledge about the Magic Knights and the situation between Emeraude and Zagato was at various points in the MKR canon.
SORRY this is a reply to a slightly old post but ahhHH I just wanted to say that your take on how much the population know about the legend of the Magic Knights and what happened with Emeraude is pretty close to mine!
I've had to spend a good deal of time thinking about this for a fic I'm working on that centers around Lantis' first days back in Cephiro after Emeraude and Zagato's deaths. It's great to know that other people agree with what I've come up with.
QuoteI figure that there was a lot of confusion on the citizens' parts even after learning about the truth of what happened with Emeraude so there's an effort to present the Knights to the people, because the Council/whoever is concerned about the Knights being demonized (because even if you explain things to people, they still come to their own conclusions), and the girls are so damn charming that in getting to know them to some degree instead of just hearing of them, most citizens actually come to admire the girls for the sacrifices they made for this Other World.
I totally agree that Clef and those who already know the Magic Knights would want to make sure that the general populace didn't blame them for what they were forced to do and that the best way to ensure that would be to make sure that the people get to meet them.
Quote...aaaand I might also be spewing my own fic all over the topic, too XD I'm kind of scared to publish it eventually because so many people are set in so many of their own headcanons about the series that everyone will be like "NO THATS WRONG it would be this way instead" even though it cannot be wrong it's filling in the blanks but aahh other peoples' are better informed than mine
I'd be more than happy to read it. I love seeing what other people have developed for their own headcanons.
Quotebut yes, I think Clef was of course resigned to another Pillar and telling that Pillar about Emeraude's situation, but if the citizens knew, it'd be chaos. thank goodness for Hikaru making that not an issue, because Clef is so glad to just make that whole situation public knowledge.
Clef was
definitely very glad to make the whole situation public knowledge.