Delivery Assistance?

[Trin-nya]

I've been wondering this, but if needed who in the cast would deliver one of the Knights babies? I'd assume that obviously Presea, Caldina and Fuu (given that it wasn't her child) would all assist somehow in the birthing room, with added assistance of maids and servants. But this got me thinking, what of the guys? Would they be instructed to get things for the birth or just stay in another room?

I suppose that this post, is more about people who have a higher power in Cephirian society, such as Lantis and the Knights and Clef. For example, like would Clef assist in births and or would he be in the room just to give something that was the equivalent of a blessing or baptism to the child, since he's the only one really in that position? Thoughts on the ordeal? 

[Revolutionaren]

I'd assume there's a whole bunch of medical type staff we just never see, and I guess they would do it.

And if was one of the girls spawning, I'd assume the other girls would be there and whoever the babydaddy is. Everyone else would be waiting patiently outside.

[Milieva]

Midwives, Trin.  Midwives.  They exist in every culture. That is the person you want helping deliver a baby, not a weaponsmith, or a master mage.  A midwife.

Then you?d likely have the midwife?s assistant(s) who would know what was needed and what to do to help.

I have at least three that attend to Umi in the current DD draft. One lectures Clef sternly about not employing one sooner.

[Trin-nya]

Well both of your replies make perfect sense, and yeah, I suppose medical staff would be necessary, as they can't do everything with magic...

[Down]

I figure their medical staff include people who use healing magic? (Not necessarily all of them, and not necessarily all the time - if something's minor and going to heal without a fuss, I figure those who can cast healing magic might save their strength for the things which need it - the tricky injuries which need setting on the right path before nature will ever be able to heal them, the people bleeding out there and then. The strokes, the heart attacks. Not the sunburn and the papercuts. XD)

If you're going to have something like a christening - a 'welcome to the world of Cephiro we introduce you to her and the community' thing - it'd be a Priest, I reckon, at least for the humans. And not likely to happen at the bedside unless someone was about to die, because they'd likely just be in the way, and who needs more strangers hanging about seeing you in pain at the mercy of your body? ^^

Besides, childbirth = one of most dangerous things for someone to go through without modern medicine, so unless you want a high infant and mother mortality rate you'd better have medical staff. And given the ideal world Cephiro is meant to look like, I don't think they'd put up with that! (The sheer WHAT ARE YOU ON??? reaction to those people who wander about supporting ~natural birth without medical intervention~ and NOTHING ELSE because ~that's the way it's been for thousands of years~ is just - yes, and look at how many women died as a result of all that lack of medical intervention! If people want to go without in situations where it's not dangerous, then fine, but taking some ~moral high ground~ because you happen to be one of the people lucky enough to survive unhurt without help? AHAHAHAH >.<) (.........ER, SORRY, the medieval-historian-now-kinda-involved-in-wellbeing-and-pissed-off-with-some-of-the-idiots-on-the-news-recently needed to rant...)

[Trin-nya]

See, that makes sense too, but we don't have a priest anymore, because Zagato's kinda dead, and  I doubt that they'd want to bring on a villager for such an important thing such as that type of ceremony...

[Somariel]

Presumably, a new High Priest was selected after the re-ordering of Cephiro.

[Down]

'High Priest' implies there are others, and to be fair, a) if they go on the medieval european model then important households would have their own priets employed in the household who would do that kind of thing unless it was a go-to-a-shrine/temple thing (OKAY NOW I WANT THAT FIC DAMMIT) and b) depends whether they're using the ceremony as 'LO HERE IS A HIGH-RANKED PERSON' which I still don't think works in Cephiro given that nothing appears to be based on inheritance - I still think individuals have to earn their rank! SO I think small ceremonies in the local community would probably be the norm anyway, if the community even is involved?

And even bishops are still local priests for their community. (One of my friends was married by two bishops. In a cathedral. Because that was her local parish church. XDD) (focus on christianity here because if Cephiro works off the fantasy-is-medieval-europe-based thing then that's the prevelant structure of power-holding religion)

Plus, yes, new Soru! *pats own particular one on the shoulder with great sympathy for what she has to put up with. (Mostly, Clef. XD) Sorry, Zafira.* Because if you have so many disparate people praying to generate one unified land, they're going to need some organisation, now they aren't all filtered through the Pillar - so the Priests, I suspect, are actually going to get more important post-reformation?

........this is getting long ahahahahaha oops. But yes. If you want big ceremonies for people, I suspect they all come as markers of personal achievement. 'Yay you made a person!' feels more private, not ~HAVE A GRAND CEREMONY AND IT WILL BE IN ALL THE PAPERS AND THERE WILL BE TOWN CRIERS AND~ etc etc? XD That would be ~you are qualified as a mage~ or ~swearing fealty to Cephiro to join the Guard~ or something along those lines, I think?

(on that note CEPHIRO: would they have town criers to officially declare news when it reaches them, or would news be passed on by travellers, and if it was important told to the priests/mages/local representative person-slash-body??? I - want to give them a set of messengers, but can't decide whether to attach them to the Clerks or the Priests, but. Yes.)

[suzanami]

Besides, childbirth = one of most dangerous things for someone to go through without modern medicine, so unless you want a high infant and mother mortality rate you'd better have medical staff. And given the ideal world Cephiro is meant to look like, I don't think they'd put up with that!

*waves hand*

Bah.  If you want to deliver safely, I'm sure you will.  Because, as the series harps on and on: DA POWER OF WILL IS ALL.

(yes I'm being facetious)

[Trin-nya]

Hehehehe, all that's been said makes perfect sense, and I suppose I don't have much left to say on the matter, but just to clarify, so wait a second...
I'm just retracing back to what Down-sama said about Newly elected High Priests for Cephiro, now this probably has it's own topic somewhere, but, do we need new people of higher authority even though we don't have a pillar anymore; Since Hikaru was basically like 'I'm gonna make it so the lands are controlled by the people themselves, and not by me, even though I technically still have the rights thanks to Mokona...'

[Down]

TECHNICALLY~ what Hikaru says, in the manga, is that Cephiro belongs to everyone who loves this country (sefiro ha kono kuni wo aishiteiru minna no mono da yo) - and, talking to Lantis, that it's everyone's hearts making everything so beautiful. And that last meeting with Clef speaking to Tarta and Tatra and Geo and Aska et all, he says Cephiro is indebted to them for their help in creating Cephiro's new 'seido' - system/rules/establishment - by telling them about all sorts of other systems.

So Hikaru dissolves the power of the Pillar System onto everyone who loves Cephiro (INCLUDING herself and the other knights because they also love Cephiro!), but that doesn't mean there IS no system, and that it doesn't need rules and figures in place to control it. That's why they're talking with the other countries, trying to work out a system of government which doesn't put too much on any one person, and doesn't put too much of a strain on the land at the same time (so not falling into the trap that Autozam has slipped into). (............And here insert people running about waving a flag going OH LOOK, DEMOCRACY WITH MAGIC UNDERPINNINGS! XD)

In the same way that in a democratic system (...a real one *ahem*) power lies with the people, and they have elected officials who take on certain roles and aspects of authority for them, because otherwise there is likely to be endless debating instead of anything ever getting done? There's a balance to be struck there, of course - too little debate and it turns back into a system where an elite are making decisions and pulling the power away from the people who elected them etc etc etc - but that's why playing with Cephiro after the reformation is so much FUN. Because with literal magic - the people literally all Creating The World About Them - how far can such a system be controlled, what happens when half a village likes the heat and the other half likes it cooler, what if some people remember where things were a little differently - what measures would they need to put in place, to stop this all causing chaos?

My theory tends to hinge on the Priests, because if people's prayers are the vehicle by which Cephiro is shaped, then guiding those prayers can give some coherence to all that power~ But that's also where the Council comes in, because the Council can decide the direction of those prayers, and then the high priest organises the other priests in letting the people know and guiding their prayers, and er

.................Welcome To Down's Headcanon Take 290356629857203597298629856 SORRY ABOUT THAT (can you tell I have a few hours free next to my books? XD)

BUT it's easier to build on the foundation you already have than to make something completely new - it's blatantly what they're doing, as Clef's in place with a new circlet (and leading the negotiations - if Ferio was leading them, Ferio would have one of the chairs, Clef wouldn't be in it. And if the power is now disseminated to the people, even if there was any kind of power in being related to the Pillar, that would now be gone - and that's why I go noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo BUT at the idea of a monarchy. Aside from the linguistic signifiers that 'prince' is a term of respect instead of a title? XD) and they're talking about mixing and matching bits of other systems instead of starting from scratch, so using the priests - and the high priest was always there to guide the pillar in their prayers, so it's still essentially the same job! - makes sense?

and why am I NOT STOPPING. I AM STOPPING NOW.

[Down]

(................er, I do have to ask, why is this is Rarabai? XDD)

[Trin-nya]

That headcanon was gloriously written. Like wow...

Anyways, I put this thread here only because I couldn't think it'd get as much love as it is, and secondly I didn't know where else to put it... Heehee.

[Milieva]

Anyways, I put this thread here only because I couldn't think it'd get as much love as it is, and secondly I didn't know where else to put it... Heehee.

Right... I was going to move it.  Doing so now.

[Down]

Besides, childbirth = one of most dangerous things for someone to go through without modern medicine, so unless you want a high infant and mother mortality rate you'd better have medical staff. And given the ideal world Cephiro is meant to look like, I don't think they'd put up with that!

*waves hand*

Bah.  If you want to deliver safely, I'm sure you will.  Because, as the series harps on and on: DA POWER OF WILL IS ALL.

(yes I'm being facetious)

Hee~ (I forgot to reply to this bit in my rambling yesterday I WAS NOT IGNORING IT and being facetious is fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuun XD) but that goes back to 'how much will-power and control does the average member of Cephiran society have' which is a fascinating thing, because it's a land of will where will = magic power, but not all people in that land have magic even when they seem moderately strong willed individuals~ *WAVES AT FERIO* and does that effect what control they have over themselves? Like, no one seems to have a beard - do they shave, or does control over their own body (which it makes sense they might have to some degree) mean that they can just choose not to grow facial hair?? Does it go in degrees? So the average person can halt their ageing if they choose to, but not de-age? (Which makes the form that Clef and Emeraude take on look like a demonstration of will and control, handily disguising it's also a way for the Pillar to avoid hormones which might work towards their falling for someone by making them have to deal with attraction as well as affection)

Because on the one level the lifespans indicate that in the general course of things, they have the will to deny nature and not die when they ordinarily would - again Clef's doing quite well on that one and it could veeeeeeeery easily be another marker of power, or at least, if you break 7 centuries everyone knows you're strong-willed, or something. BUT on the other hand, in moments of extreme stress on the body - such as in the fight with Alcione - if she had complete control over her body and form, it should have been impossible to harm her, and she certainly would have been able to hold herself (~LITERALLY~) together instead of having to ask someone stronger willed - Zagato - to help her do so. Instead, when he refuses, the damage she's taken and the blow to her will together mean that she loses control, and loses her form and her life.

Fuu's healing spells wouldn't be needed, if after a while the Knights could turn around and say 'oh, I choose to be better now!' XD And I know, they wouldn't KNOW, but Clef would - he could have told Fuu that Umi would be okay and able to heal herself, and he doesn't. In the anime, too, when Zagato turns Clef to stone - at that point, Zagato's will is stronger than Clef's, so he can usurp Clef's control of his own form and hold it there. But Clef's able to fight back, though as Zagato gets increasingly desperate and Clef's increasingly tired he struggles more and more (and given the whole 'the only way out of this is if Zagato dies and then Emeraude's wish is fufilled' I am not surprised he struggles to not just give in because *CRIES*)

And it feeds into Cephiro's attitudes to stuff like sex/gender as well, because if someone felt strongly that their form didn't match them, then I bet they'd have the will to change it - and so long as they identify with their form, it wouldn't be a spell, it would be natural. (Which, heh, leads to a couple of bits of fic which would send this topic right back to Rarabai BUT for me the logic follows that those with the strongest will can change their form just because they want to, though it would take a degree of effort to hold the new form? XDD)

OH LOOK I WANDERED FAR FROM THE POINT AGAIN

BUT YES

Childbirth = a time of significant trauma to the body, so would the average person be able to deliver safely on willpower alone? And if there's something wrong with the child, a newborn isn't going to have the will to heal themself, so~ healers! :DDDDDDDDDDD

ALSOOOOOOOOOO now I am sat going 'but, wait, we know the Pillar can't restore life, but surely they can heal? So - Emeraude has to have deliberately Not Rescued Zagato in that last battle. I mean, I know she was keeping herself from interfering by leaving the dungeon and getting in the way, but did she also have to stop herself from healing him??? Can you imagine if she hadn't? If every time he came close to dying she healed him, and he still refused to get out of the way, and-' D: